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crackers
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Joined: 28 Mar 2016
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Location: Southern Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:04 pm    Post subject: My Moggie called... Moggie Reply with quote

Just bought home an immaculate, light blue, 1960 four door.

Oh okay, she IS a Morris Minor. Without finding some way of decoding the serial number, I don't know if she actually IS a 1960. Carries the Nuffield (Australia) plate so I'm guessing she was a CKD and assembled here.

And the 'immaculate' is an outrageous falsehood Eye Rolls

I'm her 4th owner and the previous owner had her for 16 years - nice bit of history. Essentially stock apart from more modern seats (that don't go back far enough for me and are knackered anyway), a brake booster (that doesn't appear to) and very loud air horns.

The original Sky Blue paint is worn through in places, rusted through in others.

The boot lid was fitted before the PO got it and would appear to be a replacement itself. Needs replacing now so anyone in Adelaide trying to sell a boot lid, please give a yell.

Very light rust coming through in one or two of the doors - urgent preventative work needed there, maybe more so on one of them.

The front wheel arches have some nasty looking rust near the bottom rear (by the front door) and will require major work. I'm hoping that's straightforward cutting, shutting and welding - even better if it's bolt on bits but I know I'm just being hopeful there.

That's the worst of the rust though. None that I could see around the suspension mounts. Chassis rails and front cross member all looked sound (yes, I know, grease hides a lot and attacking with a screwdriver doesn't always find things). Bit of surface rust, eg around the front grill which is more rusty discolouration flowing from somewhere. Floors seemed sound although the original floor linings are wedded to the floors so it wasn't easy to see or feel. Should be right. Sills seem sound if a little dented.

She's a scruffy mess inside so lots to do there.

Mechanically.

The engine pulls smoothly but doesn't seem to offer much in the way of fast getaways - needed second gear for the bottom part of Flagstaff Hill but that's over 10% grade so I'll forgive that.

The brakes have a booster that doesn't appear to be doing anything - for that matter, the brakes don't appear to be doing much either but considering my Fiat Panda has overly aggressive brakes, I know I'm expecting too much. It stops... and yes, the handbrake is there to hang your hand bag on but not much more.

The clutch will be the first thing. The clutch itself seems fine but the pedal is very heavy, doesn't return to the top (lost a return spring maybe) and doesn't feel like it's clearing fully. When I get under there, I'm expecting to find old hoses and maybe a weeping master cylinder and feel that if I redo everything from clutch to pedal, I'll be right.

She has a pronounced bachelor's lean. Tyres are round and black. Steering is direct with no play - the boots appear intact.

So lots to do. Apart from the wheel arches, I don't expect anything too horrid.

The plan is to get her sorted, maybe paint her a nice, dark green, then look at engines and good stuff like that.

And some pictures, just so you know she really does exist










Woo hoo. Now to look at local Morry clubs - there appear to be two, the Morris Minor Club and the Morris Register.


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crackers
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Must be keen, just signed up for a WEA welding course, organised some new hub caps and am trying to find a length old exhaust pipe to fix mine. Shocked


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crackers
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, now I'm really confused.

Reading on the net seems to suggest the clutch mechanism is mechanical. I could have sworn the PO said that she'd topped up the clutch fluid. So I went out to the car, stuck my head under the bonnet, and went looking for the reservoir. Couldn't find it could I. In fact, I couldn't find the BRAKE reservoir. I know that at least one reservoir is under there somewhere.

A couple of photos.
First, the engine bay



You can see the brake booster in the front, left hand (as you look at it) corner.
Close up of brake booster



The hydraulic pipes for the brakes go down and under.

I feel a bit of a goose here because never before in all my years with cars, have I failed to find the brake reservoir, but where is the thing?

And following on that, is the clutch hydraulic or mechanical and if hydraulic, where do I find its reservoir?

I'm obviously not drinking enough.


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william ballard
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:52 am    Post subject: Your Moggie Reply with quote

Hi Crackers and welcome to the Forum Very Happy .......your clutch is not hydraulic therefore no reservoir........it is very common for the clutch linkages to grab under floor?.......check under floor where the pedals go through to the linkages and spray with WD40!......To check your Brake Master Cylinder fluid level lift up Drivers side front floor mat and remove rubber plug......cheers William Ballard.


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crackers
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I reckon I got confused because I was sitting inside the car, mentioned the heavy clutch and the owner said something about checking the fluid. That made me think hydraulic and the thought stuck Shocked

And to think I was so careful looking over the car Embarassed

Anyway, mechanical linkages aren't that nasty to fix if I find them worn. I'll get under there today and do a clean up and lubricate.

Any thoughts on how to check that brake booster? I doubt it's standard and to be honest, I know little about the brutes. I know they don't increase the braking performance, just reduce the pedal pressure but at the moment, it doesn't feel like it's working at all.


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Paul M
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Crackers,

I assume it has standard front brakes? Mine had a booster as well, but also a disc conversion. It stopped really well. South Glenelg Brake services can check the master cylinder and supply bits, thats where I get mine for the Wolseley (and also when I had a Minor)

Cheers, Paul



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crackers
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Paul. Probably best to spend a little and get them checked, even if I do wind up doing the repair myself. I want to do as much as possible, that being the point, but sometimes you need a pro to tell you what's actually broken.


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crackers
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:41 pm    Post subject: Repairing the broken tailpipe Reply with quote

Had a satisfying afternoon with the Moggy... well, part of an afternoon. First I had to get a Land Rover chassis out of the way and then clean up the dirt I'd laid down to sop up the Land Rover oil spills. That actually took longer than the tailpipe repair. Once done, Moggy was able to claim her garage for herself.



The workshop supervisor checked that I had chocks under the front wheels and that the work stands were set properly.

The tailpipe had rusted through and broken off just in front of the rear hanger. I was able to pick up a length of good tailpipe from a wreckers for $5. I was hoping for a snug fit but settled for a loose fit, which was probably the best I was going to get as I seem to remember that metal pipe goes up in relatively large jumps.



Despite everything being rusted, it wasn't hard to undo the hanger clamp and to remove it from the rubber part - maybe I'm just used to tearing apart Land Rovers where your 'go to' spanner tends to be the angle grinder Shocked

The clamp was a snug fit to the old pipe, so it didn't fit the new pipe, but it wasn't hard to spread the clamp to take the new pipe - you'd be amazed what you can do with a pry bar. This, of course, meant that I needed a new bolt for the clamp and also needed to put a bend in it to go around the bottom of the new pipe. Happy times digging through my tins and jars of nuts and bolts finding the right bolt Very Happy

The angle grinder made short work of cutting the new pipe to length. I actually made it as long as I could, The new pipe having bends and brackets, I just cut the longest straight bit between them. Because of the loose fit, I was able to use all of this length and wound up being able to overlap the old pipe by nearly a foot.

I had some high temperature silastic in the fridge from when I'd put a tailpipe extension on an MGB. I slathered that all over the old tailpipe after scraping off some of the scaly rust (now that I think of it, I should have done a better job of cleaning off the rust), then wriggled the new pipe over it all, making sure to spread the silastic along the whole length of the overlap for best sealing.

It was a simple job to wriggle the clamp over the new pipe, position it and bolt it to the rubber hanger strip. Pity I couldn't get the clamping bolt through the holes with the pipe in place, so I had to unbolt the clamp, remove it, fit the bolt, and refit it over the pipe before rebolting it to the rubber hanger. A simple clean up of the excess silastic and the job was done. She even sounds better though I'm not sure why because the only muffler is up near the gearbox. Be a lot safer though, having suffered getting exhaust gas into a car, I'm wary of it and now it's solidly supported at the back.



I had planned to check out the clutch but decided that cowardice was the better part of valour and knocked off with a job finished successfully rather than risk getting into something horrid Eye Rolls


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Paul M
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just noticed it has an alternator conversion as well. Might pay to check the charging circuit as well, because if you have dodgy wiring you will get heaps of problems.

Cheers, Paul



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crackers
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul M wrote:
Just noticed it has an alternator conversion as well. Might pay to check the charging circuit as well, because if you have dodgy wiring you will get heaps of problems.

Cheers, Paul


I don't seem to be having any problems. Still, thanks for the heads up, I'll treat things with a little more paranoia.


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crackers
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, haven't I been having fun

Went to Motor Reg to transfer the registration to me - only had to wait an hour for a three minute exercise at the counter.

Once home, I changed into my overalls and headed out into the shed.

The first job was to work out why the clutch feels so odd - it sits lower to the floor than the brake pedal and, when you put your foot on it, it feels stiff and seems to come up hard before you reach the floor.

Bricks fore and aft on the passenger side wheels, I crawled in underneath... almost... and couldn't see a thing. So I crawled back out, got my work light and jammed myself under the car again. Couldn't quite get far enough, but could see most of the clutch linkages. I could also see the return spring which surprised me - with the pedal not returning to full height, I'd suspected it wouldn't be there. Wriggled back out, got my can of WD40, did the flattened spider impersonation again, and squirted everything I could get at. Back out again (and getting rather fed up with it by now), I climbed into the cockpit and pumped the clutch pedal. It felt much better.

Right, now to do it properly. Checking the bricks were still in place, I jacked up the driver's side and settled her on a pair of workshop stands. This made it much easier to slide in underneath and now I could see all the greasy, gunk covered linkages (they certainly won't rust). Then I wriggled out again because, of course, I'd forgotten to take the WD40 in with me. Back underneath, I drenched everything that appeared to move. Slid out, reached into the car and pumped the clutch. Huge improvement in feel - still not returning to the full height but I thought I'd let that go for the moment.

Then I checked the amount of free play. Probably doing this wrong but stood a ruler up beside the pedal and lifted it to its full height. Just over half an inch. For some reason, I just noted that and left it.

Stands removed, I climbed into the car and pumped the pedal - it felt much better which was fine seeing I was looking for an improvement, not a cure.

It was only later when I was changing out of my now even filthier overalls, that I realised that I don't have enough free play and that this would explain why the pedal feels like it's coming up short before the pedal hits the floor. I'm not senile, just practicing. Anyway, if someone could give some guidance on the Morry clutch and it's foibles, I'd appreciate it.

Then I decided to look at the timing. She's as sluggish as me on a monday morning and while I'm not expecting breath taking performance, this seems a little too sluggish. I'd seen all the talk of setting the timing by ear, but didn't want to go fiddling without knowing where the timing is set now, so I dug out the timing light.

Instant problem - the cables on my timing light aren't long enough to reach over the front of the car and down underneath. Not a problem, I found a suitable hole beside the engine that allowed me to get the timing light underneath... while connected.

Then I had to take off the vacuum tube. Mine's metal tube with rubber tubes connecting it to the carby, the dizzy and that funny fuel trap in the middle... and every one of those rubbers was rock hard and refused to be removed. Great. Recognising that this would mess with the timing readings, I thought I'd give it a go anyway. Engine fired up, timing light working, I squirmed underneath and tried to aim the light at the timing marks. Well, I could see the darned things, but couldn't focus on them. Off with my glasses and instantly I could see the timing marks, sort of, but no sign of the pulley mark, probably because the vacuum pipe was still attached.

So I put the timing light away.

How to get a benchmark before messing with the timing? I just put a scratch on the dizzy body and the clamp. I loosened the clamp, and tried to turn the dizzy. It wouldn't. Couldn't get it to move for love nor money. Yes, I know, I'm doing something daft, just couldn't see what it was. Ah well, there IS the vernier adjustment knob - playing with that didn't seem to make any difference to the way it ran so I decided to go for a test drive and play on the road. Besides, it was fully dark by now and it'd be a good chance to test the lights.

I slipped her into gear, removed the bricks chocking the wheels, decided to start the motor for some reason, reached in, turned the key, and pulled the starter - she shot forward and tried to ram a workbench. My dog gave me the sort of pitying look he often gives me.

But you'll be happy to know that I got her out on the road safely. For some daft reason, I decided to go up Education Road - it's right by home, it's over a kilometer long and quite a few bits of it are over 10%. She tried really hard, spent most of the trip in second and struggled on the steepest bit. From there, it flattens out for another kilometer though it's still a bit of a climb.

I should report now that she misfires now and then under load. Obviously something wrong that needs diagnosing. Also, it's really easy to get get shocks from the high tension leads when messing about with the dizzy - new plug leads and cap in order?

Once at the top, I stopped, popped the bonnet and advanced the ignition using the vernier, 5 clicks. Driving off, she instantly felt a lot happier. So I stopped and advanced it another 5 clicks. So she's now 10 clicks advanced from where she was when I started (figure given for my future reference) - does anyone know how many degrees that equates to?

Driving her now, she felt happier. I couldn't detect any pinging... but aren't sure that I would anyway. Now I had a Morry that could be reasonably described as 'nippy'... up to the point where you run out of those 37 horses. She may, however, be a little down on low down torque so it's possible I've gone too far. Any thoughts?

So in an evening, I've fiddled with, improved but failed to fix the clutch linkages. I probably need to pull things apart, clean them up and do it all properly. Oh, getting the the free play is probably a good move but, is the pedal supposed to come up to the same height as the brake? If so, why isn't it and how do you adjust the free play?

Engine tune. Well, it's making consecutive brrmm brrmm noises. It's got a misfire that needs diagnosing, particularly under load. I guess the only way is to start from scratch. I'm getting shocks from the high tension leads so does this suggest I need new ones?

At least she's driveable which is all I wanted until the weekend - I'm hoping to use her on wednesday.


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crackers
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a play with the tune too. She now runs... differently

First off, I checked the tappets - all these measured at .015 which is looser than the .012 the manual asks. I'm not sure it's a big problem though, not big enough to go messing with at this stage - tight tappets are a bigger issue.

Plugs and points looked good - obviously recently replaced and, of course, I forgot to check the points gap until afterwards.

Timing. I loosened off the dizzy bolts. There's supposed to be the pinch bolt and two base plate bolts. I could only see one base plate bolt, if there's another, it's in a spot where you can't get at it. Irrespective of that, the dizzy moved with just the two I loosened so I ploughed ahead. She's seemed very sluggish (remember, I'm not used to the Morry 1000 and didn't know if I was asking too much) so I wasn't surprised to find the idle smooth out and the revs go up as I advanced the dizzy. Found a rather wide band that gave max revs.

Having a timing light, I checked the timing and it was probably at about 20 degrees, so I backed it off to the specified 5 - it was still on the same, fast idle so I left it there. HOWEVER, at this stage, thanks to rock hard rubber tubing, I can't disconnect the vacuum advance tube so the timing light figure is probably bogus.

Mixture. Well, after lifting off the air cleaner (actually, this was the first thing I did so the timing was done with the air cleaner off), there was still a short manifold bolted to the front of the carby, so I couldn't get at the piston to lift it with a screw driver. There's supposed to be a pin you use to lift the piston but I'll be blowed if I could find it. There was what looked like a pin at the front with a spring around it but nothing would persuade it to move.

Sooo... forgive me, for I have sinned. I pulled out my ColourTune and plugged that in. Believe it or not, for the first time ever, I got good, clear results with that devil's instrument - I've only ever used it with dual carb setups without it offering more than a guide. Today though, I was able to get a good, clear mixture setting.

All bolted back together, paws clean, we took her for a test thrash. A great improvement. She's still as slow as grandma after a long night at the pub but at least she seemed happy and almost sprightly. I did use the micro adjuster to dial the timing forward about a degree - no pinging, seemed a little happier, so I probably have more to do there.

I also checked the front brakes - the horrible results can be seen here - http://www.morrisdownunder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=49976#49976

All in all, a productive afternoon.



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John Ballard
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In regards to the distributor I had some problems with mine jumping out of drive which left me stuck on the side of the road .
That was until Scott here showed me the errors of my ways.
The distributor is held in place by a clamp bolt on an egg shaped plate that is held to the block by two approx. 10mm studs.
So if you have tightened up the clamp without loosening at least one stud the clamp pulls tight but not tight around the dissy. Just think about it.
All very self explanatory in the workshop manual .
First time it happened was at the bottom of Mt Victoria heading for Sydney, not fun timing a Minor on the side of the road with basic tools.



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crackers
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't see the second of the two bolts clamping it to the block, so I only worked with the one I could see. I definitely have the pinch bolt and the front block bolt done up tight. Guess that means I have to go looking for the other bolt.



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
First off, I checked the tappets - all these measured at .015 which is looser than the .012 the manual asks.


.015 is good. For later Minis (basically the same engine), it was specified at this gap. Some suggest going bigger still (.018) on the exhaust valves. The reason is that if your head is leaded, and you drive it hard on highways etc, the extra gap will reduce valve seat erosion problems.

Quote:
There was what looked like a pin at the front with a spring around it but nothing would persuade it to move.


That would be the mixture test pin. It seems like it is jammed. It would be worthwhile unjamming it when you get a chance, because it is very useful. Taking the airfilter off to set the mixture is a mistake, because removing it changes the airflow and therefore the mixture.

Good luck with it.



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1958 Morris Minor van--not on road yet
1968 Austin Minor van--not on road yet
1970 Morris Traveller -- not on road yet
1970 2-door -- on the road
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crackers
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks mate. Good news on the valve clearances - they were all the same so obviously set there.

Regarding the mixture pin, any thoughts on how to free it without dismantling the carby? I too like using them.

Funny about your air filter advice. I understand your reasoning but have always been taught to remove it.



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Funny about your air filter advice. I understand your reasoning but have always been taught to remove it.


I have demonstrated this for myself by setting the mixture twice: with the cleaner off then on.

Obviously, the more clogged the paper filter is, the greater the difference difference. But I have found it makes a significant difference even with a clean filter.

Now that we are chatting, I suggest a different method for setting your timing. First make sure that your vacuum advance is working. Once your mixture is right, swivel the dizzy until you get a fast smooth idle and then clamp it. Take the car for a drive and test to see if it will ping under heavy load. If it does ping, immediately potter gently home and retard it a little then road test again. If it doesn't ping, swivel the dizzy to advance it a bit and road test. The purpose is to home in on the timing setting that is advanced as much as possible without pinging under heavy load. That is your optimum setting. Ignore your timing light and factory timing settings--they were only relevant for completely different petrol than we have today. This is the method that seems to be the widely accepted method on the UK Minor and Mini forums.

Once again, all the best for your tuning up!



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1958 Morris Minor van--not on road yet
1968 Austin Minor van--not on road yet
1970 Morris Traveller -- not on road yet
1970 2-door -- on the road
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crackers
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How obvious is the pinging and what's the best way to test for it?

It's been 40 years since I went looking for it - I know I'll recognise it once I know what I'm listening to but in the meantime...

I hadn't picked up on the different fuel types. I'm currently putting 95 in her because I've learnt that it is more stable when the car isn't used much (the 91 can break down to horrid muck) and there's less chance of getting ethanol in it. If I keep using her all the time, I might revisit that because I'm sure it doesn't need 95.

How do I tell if it's got a high compression head? Engine number prefix is 9MUH



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This link appears to answer my 'wot donk is that' question:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/engine/be100.htm

So mine is:
9 - 948cc
M - Morris
U - Central gear change
H - High compression head

Actually, that's going off the rego papers and the plate on the firewall, I haven't actually checked the motor itself.

Elsewhere I found a chassis number breakdown that confirms she's a 1960 and judging by the numbers, probably mid range for that year.



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pinging (or pinking)

The only method I am aware of for the DIY mechanic is to listen for it. You have to be careful -- it can quickly damage your engine. So if you hear it, you need to back off the throttle ASAP.



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1968 Austin Minor van--not on road yet
1970 Morris Traveller -- not on road yet
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks mate. High gear, low revs, put the foot down from memory and when it it pings, take it quietly. Might wind the micro adjuster up so I can back that off on the side of the road.



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bought a nice new set of tyres today - 155/80R14 Nankang CX668 81T

I discussed tubes with him before fitting. He said he'd have a look, particularly as two wheels had tubes and two didn't. He reckoned the rims have enough of a lip to safely take tubless.

He also commented that you can't get dedicated size tubes anymore, it's more a 'one size fits nothing' arrangement. At this point, he showed me the tubes that came out and on both you could see where part of the tube had folded over and was starting to perish.

He also commented that tubes let water in around the valve and this could lead to rusting - I guess that's why someone earlier commented that you needed collars.

He removed the old tyres, cleaned up inside the rims, fitted and balanced them - $100 a tyre.

What pressure do you suggest I run? They're currently at 34 psi - I've got a feeling the suspension is so soft and floaty at the moment it's going to be darned hard to determine a pressure by feel (my little Fiat lets me know when the tyres are as much as 2 psi out and she's a rock and roller like the Moggy).



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run 24 to 26 psi in mine. Close to the original specs. As far as tubes go Morris Minor wheels were never designed to be tubeless, if you can get hold of very late Morris Major Elite rims they were tubeless but early Major were not.
As far as driving a Minor on standard wheels without tubes for me it would be no faster than 10 klms per hour.



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I've got trainer wheels


Joined: 04 Apr 2016
Posts: 18
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Crackers, great link about the engine details. I have just bought a 1954 split screen four door with the same engine as yours. 9MUH confirmed off the the engine block. I'm going to the Vic Morris club meeting tomorrow night for the first time. Keep the posts coming I've been enjoying them.
Cheer, Gav.


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crackers
Free Wheeling


Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Posts: 123
Location: Southern Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gav1954morry wrote:
Keep the posts coming I've been enjoying them.
Cheer, Gav.


Thanks Gav, I enjoy writing and don't mind amusing fellow sufferers. Even better if we all can learn from them - that's the joy of starting near the bottom of the ladder, I've a long way to climb



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The first rule of British motoring is never ever ask why - there usually is no good reason, accept it and try and work out how to mend it.
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